I am puzzled by what seems to me to be a clash of "Image" and perception. Some Orthodox and Catholics on the internet (many of whom are converts from Anglican or other Protestant churches) a few who read this blog, have an image and a perception of Protestants that doesn't necesarily fit my limited but ground level experience. There is much focus of the theological malaze in the mainline churches (recently the focus has been on the Episcopal Church) around the issue of human sexuailty and Woman pastors or priests. These problems and debates and the unconsidered words by leaders in these churches (and Spong doesn't help) surely give a certain image or picture, that seems to indicate a wide spread disdain or distaste for any thought pattern that is older than the 1960's, let alone any sense that the church is not simply made up of those who live contemporaneously with each other. The claim seems to be that those who either advocate for a reevaluation of Christian understanding of human sexuality or for woman pastor or priests simply don't care for the tradition of the church or Biblical fidelity. While I certainly understand where this image comes from it is not what I see in my regular contact with those who are not the talking heads or who do not have the spot light and attention. What I in fact see is Christians who do see (rightly or wrongly) that woman can be priests and that the church can bless committed same sex couples and who also seek to be orthodox. Now I can understand disagreeing with that position but ignoring that it exists and painting everyone with the revisionist brush as if acceptance of woman priest and homosexuality equals being in complete agreement with Bishop Spong. I guess I'd like to see a finer point to these agruments and engagement rather than braod brush strokes I tend to see used. There are exceptions certainly, Huw Raphael is one of them though it seems to me he gets a fair amount of dificulty for his carefull attention to the complexity of the current situation and debates.
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Thanks for the mention and I realise not all Broad Churchmen (Anglican-speak for Modernists or liberals) are alike (Spong-ish). Some are wrong on some issues such as the ones you named but credally are still Christians.
ReplyDeleteI knew this from our initial introduction/engagement months back. However, at times you comments on this blog, I think to reinforce your sense of urgency concerning these issues, do not show this recognition.
ReplyDeleteI will admit that in the very least charity is at best strained as people try to convince me of the truth of their position.
When really I am seeking to live into the unity of the faith and to be knit into the one Body of Christ the Church.
Granted you believe I have a faulty understanding of this, and that may be true, but a more regular acknowledgement that I and my compatriouts on the other side are truely seeking what you claim to have isn't too much to ask I think.
So i appreciate the admission above, now I ask of you and others that this admision penetrate your rhetoric and apologitics. At least for me if you do so you will be more convincing and more attractive. A hardlined approach that does not admit complexity simply gets my defenses and hackles up, and I think that is true of those I know in similar situations.
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ReplyDelete(Let's see if I can get this right on the third go.)
ReplyDeleteOne of my mistakes was I assumed my first comment on the issue(s) set the tone and context for all other comments from me and of course it doesn't really work that way. A new reader of this blog who finds them probably hasn't read our introductory conversation six or so months ago! More a blind-spot of mine than malice.
...but a more regular acknowledgement that I and my compatriots on the other side are truly seeking what you claim to have isn't too much to ask I think.
No, it's not too much to ask.
...now I ask of you and others that this admission penetrate your rhetoric and apologetics. At least for me if you do so you will be more convincing and more attractive. A hardlined approach that does not admit complexity simply gets my defenses and hackles up, and I think that is true of those I know in similar situations.
On such situations, as I read recently in another blog com-box, quoting somebody else: 'It's more complicated than that...'
I'm already on it. Many thanks.
Young Fogey,
ReplyDeleteThis is a very kind responce. It gives me hope for our continued dialogue.
I will also try to remember our extended dialoge when evaluating your individual coments.
BTW I do appreciate your comments.